ISSN 0964-5659
LONGEVITY REPORT 97
The Newsletter of Longevity Books, West Towan House, Porthtowan, Truro, Cornwall TR4 8AX
Volume 17 no 97. First published March 2004. ISSN 0964-5659.
Local Help
by Robert Ettinger Ettinger@aol.com
Here is a bit about The Cryonics Institute (CI) and
local help for members at a distance, where at least
some people seem to have persistent
misunderstandings.
First, there is no simple, quick, convenient,
turn-key, one-size-fits-all system for your
arrangements. The basic CI contract says that our
responsibility begins when the patient is delivered
to us, and this is the understanding for the
minimum suspension fee of $28,000. Naturally,
members at a distance will also need local help
and transportation, and this must be arranged and
funded. There are various options, depending on
location and circumstances, and somebody has to
figure it out and put it in place. In particular, the
duties of the local mortician and any possible local
volunteers must be spelled out and preparations
made, including training and equipment as
indicated.
It is more convenient for the member if the local
and transport costs can be included in the
suspension fee guaranteed to CI, typically through
life insurance, so we offer a Local Help Rider
along with the Cryonic Suspension Agreement for
those who want it. CI then pays the local mortician
when the patient has been shipped, according to
the terms of the Rider.
The duties assumed by the local mortician, and the
price, will vary and require negotiation, perhaps
among several parties--the member, CI, perhaps
other members in the vicinity, perhaps local
volunteers, possibly other cryonics organizations,
and the mortician. Finding a willing mortician
close enough is usually not difficult, but may take
some time.
The whole process will take time and demand
attention from our staff, which costs money.
Therefore we cannot--as many prospective
members would like--get everything neatly lined
up to the prospective member's satisfaction before
he joins. He must join first, and then we will work
with the member and do our best, within our
resources and as promptly as feasible, to get all the
arrangements in place. If at any point the member
is dissatisfied, he can always cancel the contract, if
he has one, but cannot recover his membership fee
(or dues in the case of an Option Two member).
How local volunteers fit in is highly variable. In
England there is a well organized and equipped
and trained volunteer group, centered on the
initiative of Alan Sinclair (now on the CI Board of
Directors) and others. But even this group--let
alone others much weaker--cannot represent
themselves as agents of CI, for obvious reasons of
legal liability. Any involvement of volunteers must
be informal from the point of view of CI. The
members who plan to use the group, and the group
itself, must see to their own legal protection and
make their own judgments as to what is useful and
safe. In particular, care must be taken not to get
crossed wires between the volunteers and the local
mortician.
Members and prospective members must avoid the
"us-them" attitude, that "we" (the members) are
customers and "they" (CI) are vendors. CI is not a
business in the usual sense, and its members are
not customers in the usual sense. Obviously this is
one of the reasons for the slow growth of
cryonics--that it isn't easy, simple, or cheap. We
are trying to make it easier, and in some respects
simpler, and at least relatively cheaper, but it won't
happen overnight. There is no free lunch. Unless
you are rich enough to hire people to do the scut
work for you, you will have to put up with
inconveniences and tiresome chores.
But you are dealing with chores and
inconveniences every day anyway on many levels.
At a minimum, you have to run a household with
its constant problems and maintenance--it's just the
cost of living. With cryonics, you have a chance
for a whale of a lot more living with only a
moderate dose of inconvenience.
Libertarianism, Cryonics, Religion
by Mike Perry < mike@alcor.org >
Recent exchanges on libertarianism inspired the
following, with an additional boost from some
remarks on religion. I begin with some issues
that seemed to call for further, brief comment,
then move on to tie in libertarianism with
cryonics and immortalism (albeit in a somewhat
limited way). Finally I address the subject of
religion, with some thoughts on why a
scientific version may be both feasible and
desirable at this point, and some tentative
suggestions of how I intend to proceed with
such a project.
The point seems well-established that no
libertarian system has been tried and shown
itself able to stand on its own and out-compete
alternatives. I argued that the failure of
libertarianism to take firmer hold has deep
roots in human nature, including the fact that
people exist, in some measure, to perpetuate
their genes rather than being motivated by more
rational self-interest. (It's the genes, we could
say, that motivate their hosts to do what is
"rational" from the genes' point of view.) Some
think of the system in place in the days of the
Founding Fathers as much closer to a
libertarian system than today's U.S.
governmental apparatus and in certain
important ways they are right, particularly as
regards the federal government-though it was
still not fully libertarian. They see the historical
trend, though, if I understand it right, as being
one of a steady erosion of individual freedoms
and usurpation of authority, which may
culminate in a complete totalitarian system. The
federal government, it is true, has
tremendously increased its powers and control
over the past two centuries, and this may seem
to reflect an unstoppable trend toward full
totalitarianism. But I think that, if you consider
the system as a whole, which means
government on all its levels, there are strong
countervailing tendencies. In 1790, for
instance, women couldn't vote and blacks
could be owned as property. These things were
not mandated in the Constitution but were not
forbidden either, and did exist as an accepted
part of the total system.
As our history unfolded, people demanded the
abolition of slavery and the enfranchisement of
women, and these reforms took place. In some
other ways you can see progressive reforms,
such as the elimination of "blue" laws against
working on religious holidays, outlawing of
racial segregation, and the recent Supreme
Court decision banning laws against private
sexual acts between consenting adults. Other
reforms are possible too, of course, depending
on what the people feel is right and proper and
try to see enacted via their power to vote. (And
we have seen reforms in some other countries
too, most notably in the collapse of communism
in the Soviet Union and Europe and its
ongoing accommodations with capitalism
elsewhere.) This brings us to the present.
Today we have better opportunities for both
good and bad than ever before. The bad
possibilities should not be overlooked, but here
I will focus on the good ones, from an
immortalist perspective. Mainly, we could
transform society into something that has never
existed, and which bears comparison with
some of the religious concepts of heaven. We
could eliminate diseases and aging as well as
poverty and even stupidity and the need for
employment as we now understand it (working
at a job you would not choose if independently
wealthy).
Reforms on this level, though, would require,
among other things, modifying the basic
human organism. Some fearful pessimists
realize this could really happen and is perhaps
even starting already. They would impose
legislative measures to bring it to a stop before
it goes very far. Their fear of the possible
down-sides exceeds any appreciation of the
possible benefits. It seems that they would
recognize the present human species as a kind
of "person" in its own right, and an entity with
a right to exist surpassing that of the
individuals who now comprise that very species
but who might voluntarily abandon it under
foreseeable circumstances. So they would
impose restrictions on an individual's right to
choose, for instance, a treatment to eliminate
aging, and the physical means to otherwise
improve one's body and/or mind, were such to
be developed. They fear that allowing this sort
of thing would result in something other than
homo sapiens populating the planet after a
period of time. Cryonics has attracted some, if
limited, notice from this group too. Predictably
there has been some negative reaction, and we
can expect more, since cryonics could serve as
a stepping stone to an existence other than
human, and in any case is offensive in its
intended purpose of permitting an escape from
the normal attrition of aging. (So far I think
cryonics is mostly dismissed on grounds that it
has no serious chance of working anyway, but
that could change if there were more
appreciation of the scientific case for cryonics,
particularly with some new preservation
protocols.)
The fears of these people, I think, are well
founded-the possibilities really do threaten the
biological homo sapiens. The threat exists
through the free, voluntary choices of
individuals who could decide to opt out of
what they would perceive as a biological
strait-jacket. As immortalists, of course, we
demand the right to choose, should the option
present itself. Ultimately, that body of ours
must be found wanting, if for no other reason,
because it is running down and in time will run
no more, unless something is done. We are not
concerned about the "needs of the species" if
said needs require our physical sacrifice. Some
powerful guarantees of our freedom of choice
would thus be in order. It is unfortunate that
such libertarian thinking as Mill's principle was
not firmly embedded in our legal framework; it
would serve us well. All is not lost, though; as
one ray of hope, the Declaration of
Independence (not a part of U.S. law but still
widely respected) recognizes the rights to life,
liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You
could use it to justify a person's right to choose
to have his aging process reversed, with
extension to other improvements. If such
procedures were available there should be
widespread support, which should be helped
by this historic precedent. (I also think the
respect for freedom to date in the U.S., even if
it stops short of full libertarianism, has helped
keep cryonics legal, given that the public is not
particularly interested in it and is even
somewhat repelled.) So the ayes would
probably outshout the background noises of
any holdout luddites. But now we have to
confront the fact that the proven procedures are
not in place, and the nay-sayers are making
their bid to try to forestall the very possibility.
Ironically, they could win, and the consequence
could be the destruction of the very species
they are trying to save - or perhaps the lesser
calamity of a new and lengthy, technophobic
dark age. Such could be the outcome if we
don't achieve liberation from our present
human form, as a consequence of the resulting
stagnation and frustration. Imagine a
steady-state homo sapiens culture, with
individuals dying as usual and new ones being
born who would have to relearn everything
from square zero to keep the system going.
Life would become more or less a zero-sum
game (as it was until relatively recent times),
with a constant struggle between haves and
have-nots. It could, among other things, make a
good breeding ground for terrorists of many
different stripes and gripes, some of them, it
may be presumed, having considerable
brilliance along with the traditional fanatical
hatred. Sooner or later, one misguided group or
lone individual could wreak horrible damage,
if some rogue nation didn't do it first. But
along with that would surely be a scientific,
constructivist underground which would be
trying to topple the system in a very different
and more hopeful way, that is to say, provide
the means for individuals to escape the dreary
birth-death cycle and become something more
than human.
I doubt if matters will come to the point of a
worldwide ban on good science, however. If it
did come to that in the West, national rivalries
in other parts of the world, Asia, and yes, the
Middle East too, would kick in, and you'd see
more of the good progress happening there.
Our backward bailiwick might then sense it
was being left in the dust, undo its repressive
policies, and get moving again. In any case, the
prospects for the biological homo sapiens don't
look good, and we aren't likely to see the
steady state for very long, if at all. We should
be grateful that at least one of the alternatives,
the path to something higher, is both possible
and gaining support.
We wonder what we can and should be doing
to further the good alternative, and
particularly, make it happen for us. Cryonics is
an obvious choice -- the life-extending
technologies are not here yet, and this offers
our best chance of persisting physically until
they will be. Beyond that, we can talk and
otherwise communicate about our choice of
cryonics, and try to support the important work
with our resources allocated as seems fit. I will
not deal with this difficult subject in any
generality here. But I will mention one
approach that is sometimes suggested and other
times cautioned against: religion. Religion has
been a powerful force in human society up to
now, and in particular has served to legitimize
and honor the deep wish felt by humans
through the ages to be something more than
human. True, traditional religions have
proposed and promised means of achieving
this that are not exactly the scientific and
technological approach we transhumanists are
now advocating. But we can make the point
that here the end really is more important than
the means, then try for something more: to
meet the religionists on something approaching
their own turf.
To do this, we have to think of religion in a
different way from those who dismiss it as
"fantasies about spirits" or insist it must involve
belief in the supernatural. If you think instead
of religion as a process of attempting to
meaningfully engage with what is of
transcendent or ultimate significance, the
possibility of a rational, scientific religion gains
plausibility, at least if we can centre our
attention on what is, in fact, of truly deep,
beyond-human-level significance. But of course
this is just what we immortalists are doing with
our attempts to overcome death scientifically,
something we know must become a
never-ending quest and take us to rather
distant reaches of knowable reality if it is to
continue. Something along the lines of an
immortalist religion has been attempted with
Venturism, http://www.venturist.org but I sense
the need for something deeper. This I think
would fit within the Venturist umbrella - and
that's what Venturism is, an umbrella
movement within which other
cryonics-endorsing movements could find
shelter without being in total agreement. What I
am proposing, though, would not be an
umbrella movement, but a religious enterprise
with more specific content - it would, of
course, not be acceptable to everyone who
may find the "umbrella" congenial, an
inevitable tradeoff.
Tentatively, I propose to name the new
movement Aionism after the Greek _aion_,
"eternal." It is to be based on my book,
Forever for All , but to more directly address
the special concerns of religion, and itself be
called and considered a religion. Aionism
would posit no supernatural entity or presence,
but would recognize an Ordering Principle or
Way of Things, which is manifest in
everything from mathematics to the world of
our experience. A kind of Dao, then - and
Aionism would be a scientific Daoism. It
would provide a rather generous eschatology
for humans - and other sentient beings too -
eventual resurrection in some meaningful form,
and eternal happiness, but no guarantee that the
path thereto will be smooth or swift - which
means that one's choices and behavior will
definitely make a difference. (In particular,
choosing cryonics will arguably "smooth the
path," a subject explored in the book. More
generally, though, Aionism would advocate the
highest moral standards and consideration for
all that is right and good, insofar as these things
can be ascertained.) The path of one's
existence, though, has special significance,
progress and growth in an appropriate sense
being important, with no final state ever being
reached.
Well, I said this will not be for everyone, but
we can ask if such a project would help our
cause overall more than hurt. I think it would,
even though it could inspire a backlash from
traditional religionists who might be especially
offended by it. But they in turn have to live
with each other who have different
persuasions. And a movement that truly
advocates what is right and good, as Aionism
is to be, must inspire some favorable response
from the many in traditional religions who also
favor these things. So my guess would be that
with proper presentation Aionism would be
accepted at least as another kind of religion,
again, a variant of Daoism, with special
emphasis on science on one hand, and
individual salvation and immortality on the
other, which implies that each individual is
something rather special. I think it could, in
particular, serve as a means of clarifying and
legitimizing in some skeptical minds what it is
we really want with our "tampering with
nature." For we are seeking the loftiest and
noblest goals imaginable, and yet they are
things humans have long dreamed of and
sought after. It's just that we think we've found
a new and better way to approach these goals,
one that is more rooted in the reality that
scientific evidence reveals.
Looked at from the Aionist perspective, then,
the human race is a great start but not an
end-in-itself or final goal. It must be nurtured
carefully, like a growing child, not stunted, to
find a proper destiny beyond its present level.
Survival Instinct - Extinct
by Robert Ettinger < ettinger@aol.com >
Some still wonder why cryonics is a hard sell, but
the answer has been obvious for a long time. The
so-called "survival instinct" just doesn't exist any
more, for most people most of the time, in the
circumstances of modern life. This was reiterated
in today's posts by Mark Plus regarding an
interview with Brian Alexander, reinforcing what
I have said before concerning many others,
including Isaac Asimov, Fred Pohl, and Arthur
Clarke.
Almost anyone will exert himself to dodge a taxi
or a tiger, but if the danger is not clear and
present, then, for most people most of the time, it
just isn't a major concern. And in today's world,
clear and present dangers are rare. Very few
people die of murder, or even war or terrorism.
Auto and industrial accidents kill scores of
thousands in the US every year, but the threat is
merely statistical and shrugged off. Health
concerns are taken somewhat seriously by many,
but it took decades to make a dent in smoking
practices. Even eating habits are affected mostly
by the fear of looking unattractive, not by fear of
death. And for the sick and elderly, the prospect
of death is not especially fearsome, and may even
be welcome.
People mentioned in the Alexander interview
were FOR life extension, and did NOT think
cryonics necessarily a very long shot--but STILL
rejected it. The motivation just isn't there for
most people. The bio-research life-extenders are
not motivated by fear of death or even love of life,
but just by an intellectual toy and career
possibilities.
Conclusion? Forget about "marketing" or magic
bullets. There will be a psychological sea change
at some point, but we can't predict it or jump-start
it, and we should not waste time or energy or
money on over-ambitious public relations
projects.
There is still a great deal we can do. We can
keep on doing what we have done, with
incremental improvements in all aspects of our
operations. We can work patiently among our
own families and circles of friends. The main
thing is to do your best to save yourself and those
close to you.
Ideas That Don't Work
by Charles Platt <other@platt.us>
Every so often, someone suggests that we should
approach millionaires for sponsorship for cryonics
projects. A little study of cryonics history might
be helpful.
Bob Ettinger tried to find support for The
Prospect of Immortality by doing a mailing to
names chosen from Who's Who in America. This
was - what, fifty years ago? The response was not
encouraging. Of course this could be tried again,
and it's a task that one person could certainly
tackle on his own.
Don Laughlin, founder of the town of Laughlin,
Nevada, is an Alcor member and has made no
secret of this. He is said to be worth about
half-a-billion dollars. I have seen various attempts
to get him to donate or invest in cryonics- related
initiatives, and I think $10,000 was the most he
ever contributed. And he believes in cryonics.
I was at an alternate-energy conference several
years ago where a lot of highly speculative
proposals were discussed, i.e. wacky ideas that
almost certainly wouldn't work. I spoke to a man
who was coordinating investment in research,
using funds from a consortium of investors that he
had set up. When I described the need for
investing in cryonics-related research, he was
dismissive. "It's much too far fetched," he said. "I
could never raise any capital for that."
Ask Saul Kent some time about the lack of
response for investing in anti-aging research that
looks as if it has an excellent chance of working.
Again and again I see participants in CryoNet
urging other people to do what seems obvious.
For reasons that I can never understand, no one
pauses to think that if it seems obvious, someone
else has probably tried it.
In 1992, CryoCare Foundation tried to obtain
tax-exempt status as a cemetery organization (not
a cemetery; a cemetery association). Since
CryoCare was merely an administrative
organization, it would not have incurred any
regulatory burden restricting the treatments
applied to patients. Courtney Smith pursued this
through the accounting company Ernst and
Young. Ultimately he received a hearing in the
office of an IRS official in Washington DC. The
appeal was turned down because the IRS official
said that CryoCare was working on the basis that
its patients were not really dead and could be
resuscitated one day. Therefore it could not be a
cemetery association. Did this mean that the IRS
was endorsing the feasibility of cryonics? The IRS
official chose not to address that question. He
turned down the appeal anyway.
All of this information--and many other accounts
of initiatives that didn't work--are available online
for anyone willing to go looking. Of course this
requires a little bit more initiative than making
CryoNet posts that tell other people what they
should do, because it's all so obvious.
Fly Longevity Experiments 111 to 128
By Doug Skrecky <oberon@vcn.bc.ca>
This is the 111th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 25.8 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 74 days. Control maximum survival was
rather poor this time at only 45 days. It was 51 days for the last run. Of the raw produce extracts, head
lettuce, and acorn squash appeared to be particularly beneficial. At 68 days the maximum survival for head
lettuce was only 8% less than the estimated maximal longevity under "pathogen free" laboratory
conditions. Since I began recording temperatures, none of the maximum survivals in any of my experiments
has ever exceeded the estimated maximal longevity for the Oregon-R substrain of drosophila melanogaster.
| Run
#111
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 9 |
14 |
20 |
25 |
30 |
35 |
40 |
45 |
51 |
57 |
62 |
68 |
74 |
| control one |
82 |
62 |
48 |
40 |
32 |
20 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
66 |
62 |
41 |
31 |
28 |
17 |
10 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lettuce,
head
8% |
83 |
76 |
76 |
71 |
55 |
45 |
36 |
21 |
10 |
10 |
5 |
0 |
- |
| lettuce,
head
33% |
87 |
87 |
73 |
60 |
53 |
40 |
29 |
22 |
11 |
4 |
4 |
2 |
0 |
| radish, leaf
8% |
71 |
61 |
50 |
42 |
29 |
8 |
8 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| radish, leaf
33% |
85 |
76 |
63 |
51 |
49 |
37 |
17 |
17 |
10 |
7 |
5 |
0 |
- |
| radish, root
8% |
75 |
52 |
40 |
19 |
15 |
15 |
10 |
8 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| radish, root
33% |
78 |
76 |
71 |
67 |
56 |
42 |
31 |
18 |
7 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
- |
| squash,
acorn
8% |
72 |
72 |
66 |
55 |
49 |
40 |
28 |
17 |
13 |
6 |
6 |
0 |
- |
| squash,
acorn
33% |
71 |
71 |
63 |
60 |
54 |
46 |
34 |
26 |
17 |
11 |
6 |
0 |
- |
| squash,
spaghetti
8% |
69 |
69 |
56 |
56 |
50 |
38 |
31 |
28 |
13 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
| squash,
spaghetti
33% |
69 |
65 |
58 |
54 |
42 |
27 |
27 |
12 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 112th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 25.8 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 74 days. Here I retest some previous
items. Beet, canned coffee/milk, and spinach all improved survival in earlier experiments. Both the coffee,
and milk components of coffee/milk are examined separately as well. Since all flies are stored in the dark, I
also check to see if a vitamin D deficiency may be influencing survival. Neither beet nor spinach increased
survival this time, so the previous results must have been due to chance. No benefit was seen for vitamin
D, but 10% skim milk may have been helpful. Coffee by itself, and to a lesser degree coffee/milk appeared
to offer a survival advantage early in the experiment.
| Run
#112
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 4 |
9 |
15 |
20 |
25 |
30 |
35 |
40 |
46 |
52 |
57 |
63 |
69 |
| control one |
98 |
91 |
82 |
70 |
57 |
43 |
30 |
23 |
11 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
0 |
| control
two |
100 |
83 |
83 |
61 |
44 |
22 |
11 |
11 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| beet
50% |
96 |
92 |
88 |
79 |
63 |
58 |
21 |
17 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| coffee
½ tsp |
100 |
89 |
89 |
89 |
85 |
81 |
41 |
22 |
15 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| coffee/milk |
100 |
91 |
87 |
83 |
70 |
48 |
39 |
22 |
13 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| skim
milk
10% |
96 |
100 |
96 |
88 |
72 |
56 |
40 |
36 |
20 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
| skim
milk
20% |
97 |
93 |
90 |
73 |
57 |
40 |
30 |
7 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| skim
milk
100% |
100 |
95 |
90 |
75 |
60 |
35 |
10 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| spinach
13% |
100 |
92 |
83 |
75 |
50 |
33 |
25 |
21 |
13 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
| spinach
50% |
100 |
100 |
87 |
87 |
73 |
53 |
20 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| vitamin D
25 IU |
100 |
94 |
77 |
59 |
35 |
35 |
24 |
12 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| vitamin D
100
IU |
100 |
100 |
84 |
79 |
74 |
63 |
26 |
11 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 113th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 25.8 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 74 days. Here I continue examining raw
produce extracts, and also recheck the previously detected benefit of carob. At just 36 days, maximum
control survival here compares very poorly with the 63 days from the last run. I suspect the breeding bottle
used to provide flies for this run, may have been heavily infected with some pathogen(s). Cantalope and
honeydew melon appeared to offer some protection. A benefit from carob was evident at the 1 teaspoon
dose. Carob is currently being retested again in run #124.
| Run
#113
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 5 |
10 |
15 |
20 |
25 |
30 |
36 |
42 |
47 |
53 |
59 |
64 |
69 |
| control one |
96 |
77 |
64 |
55 |
9 |
5 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
92 |
77 |
58 |
50 |
15 |
12 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| carob
½ tsp |
100 |
84 |
68 |
55 |
42 |
32 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| carob
1 tsp |
97 |
70 |
67 |
55 |
46 |
36 |
36 |
30 |
24 |
15 |
6 |
3 |
0 |
| cantaloupe
8% |
97 |
75 |
47 |
47 |
39 |
19 |
19 |
14 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| cantaloupe
33% |
97 |
91 |
83 |
71 |
54 |
49 |
29 |
17 |
11 |
9 |
6 |
0 |
- |
| honeydew
melon
8% |
92 |
68 |
60 |
53 |
34 |
23 |
19 |
11 |
9 |
4 |
2 |
0 |
- |
| honeydew
melon
33% |
91 |
83 |
77 |
69 |
51 |
37 |
23 |
20 |
17 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
| rubarb,
frozen 8% |
86 |
46 |
43 |
29 |
14 |
11 |
11 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| rubarb,
frozen
33% |
86 |
35 |
28 |
14 |
14 |
10 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| watermelon
8% |
82 |
52 |
49 |
42 |
39 |
27 |
9 |
6 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| watermelon
33% |
86 |
75 |
57 |
39 |
18 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
On the next page is the 114th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 25.9 C
during this run. Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 73 days. Of the raw
produce extracts examined this time, avocado proved to toxic. This was expected since avocado has a high
fat content, and flies are known to be adversely affected by dietary fat. High dose red tomato appeared to
be slightly beneficial, but this result may have been due to chance.
| Run
#114
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 4 |
9 |
14 |
19 |
24 |
29 |
35 |
41 |
46 |
52 |
58 |
63 |
| control one |
98 |
90 |
86 |
81 |
79 |
58 |
42 |
28 |
11 |
0 |
- |
- |
| control two |
98 |
91 |
82 |
78 |
67 |
58 |
40 |
29 |
13 |
6 |
0 |
- |
| avocado 5% |
96 |
63 |
41 |
33 |
28 |
20 |
13 |
7 |
2 |
0 |
- |
- |
| avocado
20% |
98 |
69 |
41 |
35 |
20 |
20 |
10 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| papaya 8% |
100 |
90 |
77 |
73 |
44 |
25 |
19 |
10 |
4 |
2 |
0 |
- |
| papaya 33% |
98 |
85 |
75 |
71 |
51 |
34 |
15 |
2 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| tomato,green8% |
96 |
76 |
72 |
70 |
65 |
57 |
35 |
9 |
4 |
4 |
2 |
0 |
| tomato,
green
33% |
94 |
81 |
81 |
74 |
74 |
52 |
26 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| tomato, red
8% |
97 |
75 |
69 |
67 |
50 |
33 |
17 |
6 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| tomato, red
33% |
100 |
95 |
92 |
92 |
84 |
76 |
65 |
35 |
24 |
5 |
0 |
- |
This is the 115th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 25.4 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 79 days. In this lot of raw produce
testing, high dose leek bulb proved to be toxic. I had high hopes for persimmon, but these were dashed by
indifferent results.
| Run
#115
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 4 |
9 |
14 |
19 |
24 |
30 |
36 |
41 |
47 |
53 |
58 |
63 |
69 |
75 |
| control
one |
100 |
92 |
90 |
87 |
74 |
61 |
45 |
18 |
11 |
5 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| control
two |
100 |
81 |
69 |
69 |
56 |
56 |
38 |
13 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| bean
sprouts 8% |
97 |
92 |
76 |
68 |
49 |
32 |
22 |
16 |
11 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| bean
sprouts
33% |
97 |
90 |
69 |
69 |
62 |
55 |
38 |
31 |
24 |
7 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
| leek
bulb
8% |
100 |
82 |
82 |
77 |
50 |
32 |
23 |
18 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| leek
bulb
33% |
68 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| leek
leaves 8% |
100 |
96 |
85 |
81 |
77 |
58 |
46 |
35 |
23 |
8 |
8 |
8 |
4 |
0 |
| leek
leaves
33% |
96 |
88 |
76 |
68 |
64 |
40 |
32 |
24 |
12 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
| mushroom,
Portabello
8% |
97 |
87 |
77 |
63 |
57 |
47 |
40 |
37 |
23 |
17 |
7 |
3 |
0 |
- |
| mushroom,
Portabello
26% |
100 |
88 |
84 |
80 |
68 |
64 |
56 |
20 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| persimmon 8% |
94 |
94 |
89 |
67 |
56 |
44 |
28 |
17 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| persimmon
33% |
100 |
100 |
90 |
84 |
53 |
26 |
16 |
11 |
11 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 116th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 25.7 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 75 days. The most outstanding result this
time was the extreme toxicity of raw garlic, and mandarin peel. I'd earlier tried Kyolic garlic extract, and
found this to be slightly beneficial. However raw garlic appears to be an effective pesticide. Of the other
extracts, red onion appeared to be slightly beneficial.
| Run
#116
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 4 |
9 |
14 |
19 |
25 |
31 |
36 |
42 |
48 |
53 |
58 |
| control
one |
96 |
77 |
55 |
55 |
46 |
23 |
14 |
9 |
5 |
0 |
- |
| control
two |
100 |
75 |
58 |
58 |
29 |
21 |
13 |
13 |
8 |
4 |
0 |
| garlic
8% |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| garlic
33% |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| mandarin, peel
5% |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| mandarin, peel
20% |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| mandarin, pulp
8% |
96 |
74 |
63 |
52 |
41 |
26 |
11 |
11 |
4 |
0 |
- |
| mandarin, pulp
33% |
92 |
92 |
58 |
54 |
39 |
27 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| onion,
red 8% |
91 |
86 |
91 |
71 |
52 |
33 |
29 |
24 |
19 |
0 |
- |
| onion,
red
33% |
90 |
84 |
74 |
58 |
58 |
42 |
32 |
16 |
11 |
5 |
0 |
| onion,
white
8% |
95 |
90 |
90 |
70 |
60 |
25 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| onion,
white
33% |
94 |
65 |
65 |
53 |
35 |
24 |
24 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
| onion,
yellow
8% |
92 |
80 |
64 |
56 |
52 |
48 |
20 |
8 |
8 |
8 |
0 |
| onion,
yellow
33% |
86 |
82 |
73 |
68 |
55 |
36 |
18 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 118th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 25.0 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 83 days. Banana pulp appeared to offer
an advantage during the first 2 weeks of this experiment. If this result is not due to chance, then there may
exist an unstable protective ingredient in bananas. Run #119 will further investigate this possibility.
| Run
#118
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 4 |
9 |
15 |
21 |
26 |
32 |
38 |
43 |
48 |
54 |
60 |
| control
one |
82 |
64 |
56 |
49 |
44 |
31 |
26 |
15 |
15 |
5 |
0 |
| control
two |
91 |
72 |
56 |
34 |
22 |
9 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| banana, peel
8% |
91 |
61 |
52 |
48 |
30 |
26 |
17 |
13 |
4 |
0 |
- |
| banana, peel
33% |
72 |
39 |
39 |
11 |
11 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| banana, pulp
8% |
100 |
86 |
71 |
43 |
14 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| banana, pulp
33% |
100 |
90 |
80 |
35 |
35 |
10 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lettuce,
green
leaf
8% |
84 |
68 |
52 |
48 |
32 |
20 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lettuce,
green
leaf
33% |
92 |
62 |
54 |
54 |
31 |
15 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lettuce,
red leaf
8% |
73 |
68 |
59 |
50 |
23 |
9 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| lettuce,
red leaf
33% |
79 |
54 |
54 |
46 |
39 |
25 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
- |
| nectarine 8% |
94 |
65 |
65 |
65 |
47 |
18 |
12 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| nectarine
33% |
95 |
84 |
63 |
53 |
47 |
37 |
21 |
16 |
0 |
- |
- |
This is the 119th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 23.9 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 95 days.
Yellow banana pulp once again offered substantial protection during the first two weeks of the
experiment. Ripe banana failed to acheive this, and cooked banana offered a lesser degree of protection.
The active ingrediant(s) are apparently unstable, and maximal longevity was reduced at high 20% doses of
banana. Dragonfruit rind also offered some transient benefit.
Since fly food is never changed after an experiment is initiated, unstable protectants can not offer
long-term protection, due to this experimental limitation.
| Run
#119
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 9 |
14 |
20 |
26 |
31 |
36 |
42 |
48 |
54 |
60 |
67 |
72 |
77 |
| control one |
92 |
75 |
67 |
63 |
50 |
46 |
29 |
25 |
25 |
17 |
13 |
0 |
- |
| contol
two |
91 |
66 |
63 |
28 |
9 |
9 |
9 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| banana,
yellow 8% |
94 |
94 |
88 |
74 |
38 |
29 |
12 |
6 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| banana,
yellow
20% |
100 |
100 |
84 |
44 |
36 |
16 |
16 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| banana,
cooked 8% |
90 |
84 |
84 |
61 |
45 |
32 |
10 |
10 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| banana,
cooked
20% |
79 |
71 |
50 |
35 |
18 |
9 |
6 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| banana, red,
ripe
8% |
94 |
74 |
65 |
39 |
36 |
19 |
13 |
10 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
| banana, red
,ripe
20% |
88 |
77 |
44 |
21 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| dragonfruit,
pulp
8% |
93 |
79 |
68 |
54 |
32 |
14 |
14 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| dragonfruit,
pulp
20% |
87 |
70 |
53 |
37 |
30 |
13 |
13 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
| dragonfruit,
rind
8% |
95 |
92 |
84 |
73 |
46 |
19 |
16 |
5 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| dragonfruit,
rind
20% |
97 |
94 |
77 |
41 |
24 |
18 |
12 |
9 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| figs
5% |
90 |
86 |
83 |
69 |
52 |
38 |
31 |
21 |
17 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
| figs
12% |
81 |
77 |
73 |
69 |
50 |
27 |
15 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 120th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 23.5 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 100 days.
In this run, cooked beans were blended with the water, which was added to the fly food. It appeared that
the flies did not care for these beans.
| Run
#120
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 5 |
10 |
16 |
22 |
27 |
32 |
38 |
44 |
50 |
56 |
63 |
68 |
73 |
78 |
| control
one |
100 |
90 |
75 |
75 |
65 |
55 |
40 |
20 |
20 |
15 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
90 |
84 |
76 |
71 |
68 |
55 |
42 |
32 |
24 |
16 |
5 |
3 |
0 |
- |
| aduki
beans
8% |
92 |
72 |
68 |
45 |
43 |
38 |
28 |
19 |
9 |
6 |
2 |
0 |
- |
- |
| aduki
beans
33% |
96 |
87 |
83 |
65 |
57 |
22 |
9 |
9 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| black
beans
8% |
98 |
69 |
69 |
57 |
43 |
31 |
14 |
10 |
8 |
8 |
2 |
2 |
0 |
- |
| black
beans
33% |
100 |
91 |
89 |
80 |
52 |
39 |
21 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| garbanzo
beans
8% |
92 |
76 |
70 |
60 |
38 |
32 |
27 |
14 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| garbanzo
beans
33% |
83 |
77 |
77 |
59 |
41 |
29 |
18 |
12 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| kidney
beans
8% |
100 |
75 |
63 |
46 |
42 |
33 |
29 |
25 |
13 |
13 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| kidney
beans
33% |
88 |
88 |
81 |
66 |
53 |
38 |
22 |
19 |
9 |
6 |
6 |
6 |
3 |
0 |
| pinto
beans
8% |
95 |
80 |
74 |
62 |
49 |
41 |
31 |
18 |
10 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| pinto
beans
33% |
91 |
88 |
82 |
56 |
47 |
32 |
12 |
6 |
6 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 121st update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 22.7 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 108 days.
Here an interesting supplement called theanine has its effect on longevity tested for the first time. This run
also continues testing various cooked beans.
Theanine is believed to be the major immune stimulating agent in tea. I was hoping for some modest
increase in average lifespan. This expectation appeared to be fulfilled in the present experiment. No
evidence for a dose/response was found, so it appears small doses are maximally effective. Although there
was some increase in maximal longevity from the control's 61 days to 88 days, this was still much lower
than the estimated maximum longevity of 108 days.
Of the beans, some interesting results were found with the 8% white kidney bean bottle. This result will
have to replicated before a chance finding can be ruled out. No benefit had earlier been found for red
kidney beans.
| Run
#121
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 9 |
15 |
20 |
25 |
31 |
37 |
43 |
49 |
56 |
61 |
66 |
71 |
76 |
82 |
88 |
97 |
| control
one |
87 |
78 |
78 |
74 |
57 |
57 |
49 |
35 |
22 |
13 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
92 |
76 |
72 |
68 |
64 |
44 |
36 |
24 |
8 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| broad
beans
8% |
96 |
85 |
85 |
78 |
67 |
48 |
33 |
33 |
19 |
15 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| broad
beans
33% |
80 |
67 |
67 |
67 |
40 |
33 |
20 |
20 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| kidney,
white
8% |
100 |
100 |
100 |
100 |
86 |
69 |
35 |
31 |
14 |
17 |
14 |
10 |
7 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
| kidney,
white
33% |
100 |
88 |
88 |
82 |
77 |
53 |
18 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lupini
beans
8% |
94 |
73 |
73 |
67 |
58 |
52 |
30 |
15 |
9 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lupini
beans
33% |
79 |
50 |
42 |
29 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| romano
beans
8% |
88 |
82 |
77 |
59 |
47 |
32 |
15 |
12 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| romano
beans
33% |
96 |
91 |
78 |
78 |
70 |
52 |
30 |
26 |
9 |
9 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| theanine
50
mg |
97 |
89 |
83 |
81 |
72 |
58 |
53 |
42 |
30 |
28 |
6 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| theanine
100
mg |
100 |
98 |
84 |
79 |
70 |
63 |
51 |
49 |
30 |
26 |
19 |
14 |
7 |
7 |
0 |
- |
| theanine
200
mg |
91 |
88 |
84 |
81 |
69 |
59 |
47 |
31 |
22 |
19 |
9 |
6 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
| theanine
400
mg |
93 |
89 |
79 |
79 |
61 |
57 |
57 |
43 |
36 |
18 |
11 |
11 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
This is the 122nd update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 22.7 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 108 days. No raw vegetable tested this
time offered any clear benefit.
| Run
#122
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 9 |
14 |
19 |
25 |
31 |
37 |
43 |
49 |
56 |
61 |
66 |
71 |
76 |
82 |
| control
one |
93 |
93 |
89 |
78 |
74 |
59 |
41 |
33 |
22 |
11 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
- |
| control
two |
88 |
78 |
72 |
66 |
66 |
44 |
41 |
38 |
25 |
22 |
19 |
6 |
3 |
0 |
| lettuce,
butter 8% |
90 |
90 |
80 |
67 |
57 |
33 |
23 |
17 |
17 |
10 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
| lettuce,
butter
33% |
97 |
78 |
78 |
72 |
64 |
53 |
44 |
25 |
14 |
11 |
8 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
| lettuce,
romaine
8% |
96 |
93 |
89 |
78 |
70 |
52 |
52 |
30 |
26 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| lettuce,
romaine
33% |
97 |
91 |
91 |
79 |
70 |
52 |
46 |
30 |
21 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| onions,
green
8% |
90 |
90 |
80 |
60 |
45 |
40 |
35 |
30 |
20 |
5 |
5 |
5 |
0 |
- |
| onions,
green
33% |
90 |
80 |
75 |
80 |
70 |
50 |
40 |
30 |
20 |
10 |
10 |
5 |
5 |
0 |
| squash,
buttercup
8% |
93 |
79 |
71 |
61 |
54 |
46 |
32 |
14 |
7 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| squash,
buttercup
33% |
92 |
83 |
75 |
58 |
29 |
21 |
13 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 123rd update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 22.1 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 116 days.
In run #121 white kidney bean appeared to offer some benefit during the first few weeks of that
experiment. This could have been a chance finding. However the present experiment indicates that it was
probably a real, though transient beneficial effect of white kidney beans. Red kidney beans offered no
benefit in run #120.
In an as yet unpublished experiment, Tatar indicates that resveratrol can increase maximum lifespan in
drosophila. I had earlier tried resveratrol myself, with null results. Since resveratrol is a very unstable
molecule, perhaps this result could have been expected. By contrast, the resveratrol in dried peanuts is
known to remain stable for years. Some rather hydrophobic peanut skin was mixed in with wet fly food, to
further test resveratrol.
As expected, resveratrol itself was inactive. Although the highest dosage of peanut skin did increase
maximum lifespan from 71 to 98 days, this is still less than the estimated maximal longevity of 116 days.
Possibly higher dosages of peanut skin might prove to be more beneficial, particularly if it was first
reduced to a fine powder. High doses of peanut skin are being tested in run #132 to settle this matter.
| Run
#123
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 9 |
14 |
20 |
26 |
32 |
38 |
45 |
50 |
55 |
60 |
65 |
71 |
77 |
86 |
98 |
109 |
| control
one |
80 |
80 |
80 |
75 |
75 |
60 |
40 |
40 |
20 |
15 |
15 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
91 |
91 |
86 |
76 |
62 |
48 |
48 |
43 |
19 |
14 |
10 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| kidney,
white
8% |
100 |
100 |
67 |
67 |
44 |
39 |
28 |
28 |
6 |
6 |
6 |
6 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
| kidney,
white
33% |
95 |
95 |
86 |
67 |
48 |
38 |
24 |
19 |
19 |
19 |
10 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| peanut
skin
1/4
tsp |
98 |
73 |
63 |
58 |
50 |
40 |
28 |
15 |
8 |
5 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| peanut
skin
½
tsp |
89 |
80 |
72 |
63 |
61 |
46 |
41 |
35 |
26 |
11 |
2 |
2 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| peanut
skin
1 tsp |
97 |
76 |
61 |
61 |
47 |
37 |
32 |
29 |
18 |
13 |
8 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| peanut
skin
2 tsp |
95 |
79 |
64 |
52 |
50 |
43 |
43 |
36 |
31 |
26 |
24 |
19 |
10 |
2 |
2 |
0 |
| resveratrol
100
mg |
80 |
72 |
72 |
76 |
44 |
44 |
28 |
24 |
16 |
12 |
8 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
| resveratrol
200
mg |
94 |
87 |
84 |
77 |
74 |
58 |
39 |
16 |
13 |
10 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| resveratrol
400
mg |
79 |
66 |
59 |
59 |
48 |
35 |
14 |
14 |
14 |
10 |
10 |
7 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
| resveratrol
800
mg |
80 |
64 |
56 |
44 |
44 |
28 |
12 |
12 |
12 |
8 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
This the 124th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 21.5 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 122 days. Here I retest carob, and also
give cocoa, and black grapes a try. Rooibos tea has been a disappointment in the past, but here I try the
rooibos chips themselves, rather than just the hot water extract. Once again carob offered a modest
benefit, while cocoa turned out to be inactive. Resveratrol rich grape peel offered nothing, while the pulp
was slightly useful, possibly by providing a little additional acid. Rooibos was again a disappointment.
By chance one fly in the low dose grape pulp, and one in the rooibos 1/2 tsp bottle lived to an impressive
115 days, which is quite close to the estimated maximal longevity of 122 days. In all of my previous
experiments only one fly fed some pomegranate paste in run #87 lived longer - 124 days. However the
average temperature was only 20.0 C for that run, and estimated maximal longevity would then be
calculated as 139 days.
Maximal longevity in drosophila has been determined to be controlled by temperature dependant motor
neuron degeneration. If my experiments do turn up anything that could block this degeneration, then this
might be of value to humans, who suffer from Huntington's disease. If similar increases in maximal
longevity were subsequently to be found in other short-lived animal species, then this might then be of
some interest to gerontologists, as well as life-extensionists.
| Run
#124 |
Percent Survival on Day |
| supplement |
30 |
37 |
42 |
47 |
52 |
57 |
63 |
69 |
78 |
90 |
101 |
110 |
115 |
122 |
| control
one |
76 |
66 |
62 |
38 |
31 |
24 |
17 |
14 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
66 |
63 |
46 |
34 |
34 |
24 |
22 |
17 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| cocoa 1
tsp |
63 |
56 |
50 |
44 |
25 |
19 |
13 |
6 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| cocoa 2
tsp |
74 |
70 |
48 |
39 |
39 |
22 |
22 |
9 |
9 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| carob
1 tsp |
72 |
62 |
62 |
55 |
52 |
55 |
45 |
28 |
24 |
10 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| carob
2 tsp |
85 |
65 |
62 |
54 |
35 |
31 |
31 |
19 |
8 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| grape,blk,peel
1/4
tsp |
91 |
76 |
61 |
52 |
39 |
36 |
30 |
18 |
9 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| grape,blk,peel ½
tsp |
79 |
58 |
55 |
37 |
34 |
26 |
13 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| grape,blk,peel 1
tsp |
78 |
70 |
67 |
48 |
19 |
19 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| grape,blk,peel 2
tsp |
65 |
52 |
35 |
52 |
35 |
26 |
17 |
9 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| grape,black,pulp 8% |
80 |
69 |
57 |
49 |
37 |
34 |
26 |
17 |
11 |
9 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
| grape,black,pulp
33% |
87 |
77 |
63 |
57 |
50 |
40 |
33 |
30 |
13 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| rooibos
chips
1/4
tsp |
65 |
65 |
44 |
38 |
27 |
24 |
21 |
18 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| rooibos
chips
½ tsp |
67 |
58 |
50 |
42 |
38 |
29 |
29 |
21 |
13 |
8 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
| rooibos
chips
1 tsp |
61 |
26 |
26 |
26 |
26 |
13 |
13 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| rooibos
chips
2 tsp |
72 |
72 |
59 |
55 |
55 |
31 |
28 |
17 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 125th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 21.6 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 121 days. Here I test various cooked
beans again, but with negative results.
| Run
#125
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 10 |
16 |
22 |
28 |
35 |
40 |
45 |
50 |
55 |
61 |
67 |
76 |
88 |
99 |
| control
one |
100 |
85 |
75 |
65 |
65 |
55 |
40 |
35 |
30 |
20 |
20 |
15 |
5 |
0 |
| control
two |
95 |
95 |
95 |
91 |
76 |
71 |
52 |
43 |
43 |
14 |
10 |
5 |
5 |
0 |
| calypso
beans
5% |
100 |
95 |
90 |
68 |
53 |
42 |
32 |
5 |
5 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| calypso
beans
20% |
88 |
81 |
63 |
63 |
50 |
38 |
25 |
13 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| channa
beans
5% |
100 |
100 |
100 |
83 |
83 |
75 |
75 |
58 |
33 |
17 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
| channa
beans
20% |
94 |
94 |
81 |
63 |
56 |
25 |
25 |
13 |
13 |
6 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
| cranberry
beans
5% |
89 |
85 |
81 |
73 |
62 |
35 |
23 |
19 |
19 |
15 |
12 |
0 |
- |
- |
| cranberry
beans
20% |
95 |
79 |
53 |
26 |
21 |
16 |
5 |
5 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| soy
beans
5% |
100 |
100 |
91 |
87 |
61 |
52 |
52 |
39 |
39 |
30 |
17 |
13 |
4 |
0 |
| soy
beans
20% |
81 |
67 |
62 |
62 |
48 |
38 |
19 |
14 |
14 |
14 |
10 |
5 |
0 |
- |
| valore
beans
5% |
84 |
79 |
79 |
79 |
58 |
53 |
47 |
32 |
21 |
16 |
16 |
16 |
16 |
0 |
| valore
beans
20% |
100 |
94 |
88 |
77 |
65 |
53 |
12 |
12 |
6 |
6 |
6 |
0 |
- |
- |
This is the 126th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 21.3 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 125 days.
Here I retest white kidney beans, and take a look at another type of banana called plantain.
White kidney beans at the 8% level have repeatedly extended maximum survival in the past, and this run
repeats this. The 4% level had no effect, but the 12% level had one fly, that "by chance", lived almost twice
as long as any of the control flies. At 122 days, which is just 3 days short of the estimated maximal
longevity of 125 days. No control fly has ever lived this long, and only one pomegranate fed fly from run
#87 lived even longer - 124 days.
Unlike desert banana, plantain increased maximum survival, which suggests the active prolongevity
ingredient was both different, and more stable. Leucocyanidin, which is the active anti-ulcer ingrediant in
plantain is known to be more effective than the anti-ulcer ingrediant(s) in desert bananas. (Journal of
Ethnopharmacology 65 1999; 283-288) Please note that this experiment used raw plantain, while humans
typically consume plantain only after cooking, which destroys the leucocyanidin. I had earlier obtained
positive results with the Leucoselect brand of grape anthocyanidins.
| Run
#126
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 33 |
38 |
43 |
48 |
54 |
60 |
69 |
81 |
92 |
101 |
106 |
113 |
122 |
133 |
| control
one |
81 |
57 |
38 |
29 |
24 |
14 |
10 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
73 |
60 |
50 |
45 |
30 |
15 |
10 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| dates
5% |
46 |
29 |
25 |
17 |
13 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| dates
16% |
82 |
61 |
39 |
30 |
15 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| kidney
beans,
white
4% |
67 |
46 |
42 |
33 |
25 |
13 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| kidney
beans,
white
8% |
91 |
76 |
61 |
49 |
42 |
27 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| kidney
beans,
white
12% |
74 |
61 |
40 |
26 |
18 |
8 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
3 |
0 |
| kidney
beans,
white
16% |
75 |
63 |
50 |
38 |
34 |
28 |
19 |
13 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| kidney
beans,
white
20% |
57 |
44 |
30 |
26 |
22 |
9 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lima
beans
5% |
70 |
59 |
52 |
41 |
41 |
30 |
11 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lima
beans
20% |
91 |
82 |
46 |
36 |
32 |
18 |
14 |
9 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| plantain
banana
5% |
57 |
44 |
35 |
17 |
17 |
17 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| plantain
banana
20% |
88 |
72 |
72 |
52 |
40 |
28 |
20 |
16 |
8 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 127th update of my fly longevity experiments. Average temperature was 21.2 C during this run.
Estimated maximal longevity using the formula (363 - T*11.2) is 126 days.
Of the beans tested this time, French lentils had the best results. This could be due to chance, so run #129
will take a second look at this bean.
| Run
#127
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 24 |
29 |
34 |
39 |
44 |
50 |
56 |
65 |
77 |
88 |
97 |
102 |
109 |
118 |
129 |
| control
one |
70 |
70 |
55 |
45 |
35 |
35 |
30 |
25 |
10 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
83 |
72 |
66 |
55 |
48 |
38 |
31 |
14 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lentils,
French
4% |
74 |
65 |
65 |
65 |
52 |
61 |
44 |
30 |
22 |
22 |
9 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
| lentils,
French
20% |
97 |
93 |
87 |
70 |
67 |
53 |
30 |
23 |
10 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lentils,
green 4% |
68 |
68 |
68 |
55 |
46 |
41 |
32 |
9 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lentils,
green
20% |
79 |
79 |
64 |
50 |
50 |
21 |
21 |
14 |
7 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lentils,
red
4% |
82 |
77 |
68 |
59 |
55 |
36 |
23 |
9 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| lentils,
red
20% |
82 |
77 |
77 |
65 |
65 |
47 |
29 |
18 |
12 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| navy
beans 4% |
81 |
77 |
69 |
62 |
54 |
42 |
35 |
23 |
19 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| navy
beans
20% |
80 |
75 |
65 |
40 |
15 |
10 |
10 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
This is the 128th update of my fly longevity
experiments. Average temperature was 21.1 C during
this run. Estimated maximal longevity using the
formula (363 - T*11.2) is 127 days.
Red ginseng drink and low dose flageolet beans
looked a little interesting this time. The most
surprising finding was that raw pomegranate yielded
no benefit. Previous results with (cooked)
pomegranate syrup were consistently positive.
| Run
#128
supplement |
Percent Survival on Day |
| 17 |
22 |
27 |
32 |
37 |
43 |
49 |
58 |
70 |
81 |
90 |
95 |
102 |
111 |
122 |
| control
one |
69 |
48 |
41 |
31 |
28 |
21 |
14 |
7 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| control
two |
68 |
70 |
62 |
49 |
41 |
32 |
24 |
11 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| corn
8% |
41 |
35 |
21 |
17 |
10 |
10 |
7 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| corn
33% |
76 |
64 |
53 |
44 |
29 |
27 |
16 |
9 |
4 |
2 |
2 |
2 |
0 |
- |
- |
| flageolet
beans
5% |
65 |
65 |
61 |
52 |
44 |
44 |
26 |
17 |
9 |
9 |
9 |
4 |
4 |
4 |
0 |
| flageolet
beans
20% |
70 |
50 |
40 |
37 |
20 |
13 |
7 |
3 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| pomegranate
5% |
52 |
52 |
43 |
29 |
29 |
24 |
19 |
5 |
5 |
5 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| pomegranate
20% |
65 |
61 |
61 |
57 |
48 |
26 |
17 |
13 |
4 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| red
ginseng
drink
25% |
65 |
65 |
62 |
50 |
50 |
46 |
31 |
15 |
0 |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
- |
| red
ginseng
drink
100% |
36 |
36 |
32 |
32 |
32 |
32 |
23 |
18 |
9 |
5 |
5 |
5 |
5 |
0 |
- |
Comparing Vanilla Sky and Abre Los Ojos
by Mike O'Neal < mike@mikeoneal.com >
Many cryonicists have (rightly) complained
about the silliness of the notion of VR in
cryostasis as portrayed in Vanilla Sky.
It is interesting to note that in the original
Spanish film Abre Los Ojos (Open Your Eyes)
the idea was that you would be revived into a
VR environment of your choosing following
cryostasis -- with your memories suitably
altered to account for the "transition" into this
VR world.
This idea of awakening into a VR world
survives, to some degree, in Cameron Crowe's
Vanilla Sky. Although the characters in the
final act talk as if David's dream is occurring
while he is still frozen, the Life Extension
"Lucid Dream" marketing film that he watches
makes it clear that the dream occurs after
revival. The sales pitch goes like this:
"Portrait of a modern human life. American...
Male... Birth and Death. Imagine that you are
suffering from a terminal illness. You'd like to
be cryonized, but you'd rather be resurrected to
continue your own life as you know it now. LE
offers you the answer. Upon resurrection, you
will continue in an ageless state. Preserved, but
living in the present, with a future of your
choosing. Your death will be wiped from your
memory. Your life will continue as a realistic
work of art, painted by you, minute to minute
and you'll live it with the romantic abandon of a
summer day, with the feeling of a great movie,
or a pop song you always loved. With no
memory of how it all occurred, save for the
knowledge that everything simply improved...
And in any instance of discontent, you'll be
visited by technical support. It's all just around
the corner. The day after tomorrow... Another
chapter begins seamlessly. A living dream. Life
Extension's promise to you -- Life Part 2."
In some ways, this extension of the cryonics
concept doesn't seem overly unreasonable. One
could argue that many people reject cryonics
because they are afraid of the future -- afraid of
awakening alone in a strange world. A "Lucid
Dream" might offer those who don't want to
die, but also don't want to live in a some
unknown future, an option. As to the question
of whether such a concept would be feasible,
surely a society that is capable of reviving
patients suspended with today's primitive
methods would have the technology to create
such a VR world upon revival and potentially
edit our memories as well.
Of course, I'm not arguing that CI and Alcor
should run out and start selling such a
"service". :-) But Abre Los Ojos and Vanilla
Sky do present a fascinating answer to the
question of how to deal with people's fears of
being revived in a world far removed from the
present one.
Millionaires
by Charles Platt < charles@platt.us >
Here are the reasons (which have been spelled
out before on Cryonet, incidentally) why I
believe very wealthy people may be unwilling
to put money into cryonics. Of course there
may be exceptions to this rule, and I invite
anyone to try to find some of these exceptions.
For reasons which will become clear I believe
that recipients of inherited wealth will be better
prospects than self-made millionaires.
Someone who is highly motivated to make
money is by definition a competitive individual.
The essence of a competition is that there is a
finish line and a set of rules. "The person with
the most toys, wins," right? The competitors
may try to break the rules in order to win, but
still they acknowledge the existence of the
rules. Now imagine you are telling such a
person that the whole rule structure in which he
has lived and competed is possibly invalid.
There is a future in which his wealth may be
irrelevant, his values may be obsolete, his
legacy may be forgotten, and there is in fact no
finish line, because life may not end. I suggest
that the concept of an end-point to life (after
which, heirs inherit the cash or a building is
named after the wealthy individual) is actually
fundamental to the competitive money
motivated personality. The idea that he might
"come back" in a radically different place
where all the rules have changed is not at all
reassuring. On the contrary, it could force a
very disturbing reassessment of the most
fundamental principles on which the person's
life has been based.
Moreover, as Curtis Henderson pointed out to
me long ago, all the people who surround a
wealthy individual will want him to stay dead.
How would Michael Eisner feel right now if
Walt Disney really had been frozen, and might
be resuscitated at any time? How would the
heirs of a millionaire feel if the millionaire
could "come back" and sue to recover some of
his money, on the grounds that since he is now
alive, he wasn't really dead after all?
Since people who have a lot of money must
rely a lot on their advisors to sustain their
empires, we must assume that the advisors will
be highly motivated, consciously or
unconsciously, to offer negative opinions
regarding cryonics. Third, there is the issue of
risk. Rich people love money; that's why they
are rich. They are constantly endangered by
other people trying to con them out of their
money, one way or another. They develop
elaborate defense mechanisms to protect
themselves from scams. Cryonics, at first sight,
has all the signs of being a scam. Orthodox
scientists mock it, very few people have signed
up, it's run by amateurs, the hardcore adherents
are not, shall we say, at the center of the bell
curve, it has its own weird vocabulary (e.g.
"suspension," a word which should be
abandoned as quickly as possible), and there is
absolutely no proof that it works. I would guess
that cryonics registers near maximum on any
wealthy person's "scam detection meter."
Finally if you put money into cryonics, you
take it away from some other recipient, such as
your heirs. And you are implicitly stating that
you don't believe in salvation. This doesn't look
good, and many wealthy people tend to care,
somewhat, about their public image.
Instead of asking why millionaires don't put
money into cryonics, a more sensible question
might be, why any millionaire ever _would_ put
money into cryonics. This could be a very
interesting line of inquiry. I asked Don
Laughlin (in a taped interview) why he had
signed up, and he just said, "I like the odds."
Why did this extremely shrewd man tell me that
resuscitation seems "pretty much a done deal"
to him, while other wealthy individuals would
not share this opinion? I don't know the answer
to this question, but I would like to.
As Others See us John Ballam and Hayley Riches
New Hope International Review - http ://www.nhi.clara.net/online.htm
NHI Review, 20 Werneth Avenue, Gee Cross, Hyde, Cheshire SK14 5NL
Longevity Report #95 This very unusual
publication is the newsletter of Longevity Books,
and it consists of six folded and stapled A3
sheets, producing 24 numbered pages. There are
colour illustrations and a considerable amount of
information provided as resources for readers
interested in investigating the major concerns of
Longevity Books. The subject central to this
publication is cryonics -- that is, the preservation
of the human body after death in a state that
virtually prevents decay. This is achieved through
suspending the lifeless body almost instantly at
temperatures that fully inhibit its deterioration.
The ultimate aim of this treatment is to enable its
participants to be re-animated by future
generations who, it is presumed, will have an
interest in doing so.
Certainly the issues at stake here are presented
sympathetically and emphatically. Yet it is
difficult to be certain who the intended audience
is. The prose style throughout is often
circumlocutory, and there is a considerable
amount of jargon; while the organization of the
newsletter seems random and accumulative. There
is a considerable amount of not-altogether
scientifically-derived material deployed alongside
data gleaned from disinterested sources. For these
reasons, the impetus of the whole newsletter looks
to be directed towards those people for whom the
subject has already taken root, but who feel the
need to be better informed, or even persuaded to
affirm their latent convictions.
For these people there are certainly examples of
balanced and well-judged writing here. Page 16
provides a first-person explanation of the subject
and its meta/physical ramifications by a medical
doctor who is an enthusiastic supporter; while
pages 17-23 are styled as a question-and-answer
session between a highly-qualified expositor on
the subject and a very skeptical interlocutor. But
while this is the most intriguing section of the
whole piece and, from an editorial point of view,
the most daring, I couldn't help but feel that some
of the 'answers' provided dodged the thrust of the
question a little too noticeably.
Still, this is a subject that deserves to be debated
more widely by the societies concerned, and the
scope of its advocacy here is a very good starting
point. As biassed as it is -- and that is not a
criticism -- I found it provoked questions on a
topic that will become of increasing interest as
time goes by. For example, what is the
environmental impact of cryonics? Also, the easy
assumption of the justice of laissez-faire
capitalism that makes this process available to
only a tiny fraction of the population, while
denying it to the huge majority who are obliged to
contribute to its maintenance and future success,
is something that must be questioned.
All of these issues will be with us for a long time,
and the sooner we acquaint ourselves with the
facts and fictions as they are described here, the
better able we will be to make the informed
decisions that will be demanded of us.
Longevity Report #96 Longevity Report is a
magazine focussing on cryonics and the issues
related to the topic.
Issue #96 includes a section concerning the
problems surrounding cryonic endeavours, such
as, employee instability and financial costs. There
is also an article discussing the effect cryonics
might have on the size of the population. These
are interesting to read about, but the information
seems to be based more on opinion than fact.
There is a review of Nanomedicine, Vol. IIa:
Biocompatibility, a book written by Robert A.
Freitas. We are given a general overview and a
breakdown of some of the chapters. As someone
new to the topic, this structure made it easier to
understand. I felt as if I had not only learnt about
the book, but also something about nanomedicine.
As a regular feature, there is a 9-page section
devoted to reporting results from the Fly
Longevity Experiments. This is an on-going study
observing the lifespan of fruit-flies when exposed
to things such as, fruit juice. The presentation of
the results looks overwhelming on the page, but
the use of visual aids does ease this problem
slightly.
In conclusion, I would say this newsletter was
interesting to read. It asks important questions and
although the answers are biassed, it does highlight
problems rather than choosing to ignore them.
reviewer: Hayley Riches.
A Cure for Everything?
By Robert Ettinger < ettinger@aol.com >
No, I don't mean the old joke that death cures
everything, although it certainly does make your
problems go away. If you don't exist, you don't
have problems.
What I mean is related to the purported "reasons"
for rejecting cryonics, attributed to various
people including Fred Pohl, Arthur Clarke, and
Isaac Asimov --all of whom agreed that cryonics
might work. In every case, we see a failure of
nerve, imagination, or simple logic. (Pohl and
Asimov were instrumental in the publication of
The Prospect of Immortality -- Pohl through
publicity, Asimov by vetting it for scientific
kashruth.)
Asimov's "reason"--or one of his reported
reasons--was that radical life extension is bad,
because it would freeze in positions of power the
old, entrenched fogies who would resist progress
and block the ascension of younger people. But it
is clearly preposterous to imagine that old people
will be incapable of growth and even retrofitting.
It's as nonsensical an argument as that of Swift 's
Struldbrugs. Sure, Struldbrugs would be unhappy,
but they are merely convenient fictions.
Clarke has said that we become new people every
decade or so anyway, so why bother? But if that
argument didn't persuade Clarke to give up many
years ago, why should it now?
Pohl has said that he wouldn't want to face a
future stripped of his friends and family and
familiar milieu. I think he probably declined
Alcor's offer of a free suspension because he
couldn't afford it for all his family. Aside from
the fact that some of our friends and relatives will
be there (as discussed later in this article), the
displaced person syndrome is another tired
blunder of logic, as follows.
First, displaced people throughout history have
seldom committed suicide and often made
successful adjustments. In WWII, stone age
aborigines from the south Pacific adjusted to life
in New York city (which is more than I think I
could do).
Second, the problem is clearly physiological in
large part. Young people are likely to endure
almost any hardship and persevere, because they
have the health and the hormones.
Third, to the extent that fear or despondency are
psychological rather than chemical, there are
many methods even now that sometimes help.
Mae used to say we can choose whether to be
cheerful or gloomy. That's often easier said than
done, but there is some truth in it. Most of us,
most of the time, faced with adversity, will piss
and moan for a while and then get on with it.
Fourth and finally, nothing whatever is known for
sure to be incurable. Our resuscitees will awaken
to a world of wonders, among which will
CERTAINLY be greatly enhanced techniques for
rehabilitation. And of course the suicide option
will presumably remain open if you decide the
brave new world isn't brave enough--or a further
period of suspended animation.
Friends and Relatives
I mentioned that many of us know we will be
reunited with at least some of our relatives and
friends, if cryonics works. This reminds us of an
obvious but unappreciated statistic - that relatives
and friends of
cryonicists are much more likely than others to
become cryonicists in their turn.
I could look at the database, but maybe Ben will
tell us how many members are additional family
members of the first to join or the head of the
family. In my own family, my mother and both
my wives are patients, and my son and
daughter-in-law are active members, Connie being
a director and David being a member and our
chief counsel, who led the recent successful
negotiations with the state. My brother Alan was
a member for many years, although in his final
illness he became depressed and rescinded his
arrangements, despite everything I could say or
do. Statistically, if I had not been involved in
cryonics, it is extremely unlikely that even one of
them would be involved, let alone six.
I also recall that, at one time in the past, Thomas
Donaldson in Australia signed up a surprising
number of people for Alcor, just by cold-turkey
salesmanship. There are other examples as well,
including the Chamberlains. Nobody has been
sufficiently successful in selling cryonics to make
a career of it or a living, although Rudi Hoffman
may be closing in on it, but it is very clear that
the right people, working with those they know,
have enormously improved odds in recruitment.
The moral--keep working on your friends and
relatives. Don't expect many or magic
conversions, but tact and persistence will pay off,
if combined with brains and personality.
A World Transformed Beyond Recognition
by Kurt Kimo < kurt2100kimo@yahoo.com.tw >
I read on CryoNet some time ago a posting from
Charles Platt about why he no longer has a
personal interest in being cryonically suspended.
In it, he mentioned that he did not want to come
back into a world "transformed beyond
recognition" (I believe these were his words)
where no one was left that he new from "before".
[Editorial note: Mr Platt remained signed up after
many people were disappointed at his proposal to
resign - see note at end.]
This is precisely the scenario that I look forward
to and IS the reason why I am interested in
cryonics. I have made a major move twice in my
life. The first was from Spokane, Washington to
Southern California, when I was 22. The second
was from Phoenix to Tokyo when I was 28.
Moving from LA to Phoenix, and from Tokyo to
Kaoshiung (in Southern Taiwan) were "lateral
moves" that did not involve a major change in my
life.
In both instances, I re-invented my life and my
self. Both times, I hated the first 8-10 months,
then absolutely loved it there after. I expect
coming out of cryonic suspension will be the
same, except that I can never "go back home"
again. You create a new persona and life for
yourself and make new friends. The difference is
that coming out of suspension into an "ageless"
society, the problem of finitude (the itch you can't
scratch) no longer exists. You CAN always "look
outward" if whatever life you're stuck with pisses
you off. There will always be an open door and
something new to look forward to.
If relatively few of us make it, our relationship
wit the rest of society will be analogous to the
"gaijin" in Japan. We will be kind of like a
subculture in the new society. I have lived this life
and have achieved happiness in it. I can do it
again.
The only "psychological" requirements that I
need to be happy is that I come out fully
competent and competitive (in ability and
opportunity) with the best that the new society has
to offer. Everything else is the open horizon.
Charles Platt writes:
The author is in fact misquoting me. Over the
years, I have expressed many kinds of concerns
about implications of cryonics, but I am still
signed up (with Alcor). Moreover, through my
writing and through personal contact, I have been
instrumental in encouraging many other signups.
However, I have never encouraged anyone to
sign up by downplaying potential problems. All
aspects of this speculative procedure should be
recognized and acknowledged. Otherwise we are
clinging to a faith instead of acting as rational
thinking beings. Kurt's faith apparently tells him
that waking up in the future will be no more
difficult than moving from one place to another in
the present. I can think of numerous obvious
reasons why this assumption is probably
incorrect.
Note - Longevity Report is now published when there is sufficient material,
rather than on a regular basis.
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